As a practicing MORMON...believing...faithful...(well mostly) SOMETIMES I struggle. The very foundation of our country is based on this spiritual declaration that ..ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL.. GOD IS NO RESPECTER OF PERSONS (favoring one over another)..then where in the BLAZES do we think that gays should not have the right to marry. If I have that right then what makes me think that a gay should not have that same right honor privelage to have an honorable loving relationship that bring forth this thing we think is important..THE FAMILY..? I don't get it. Here we have young men committing suicide over this because we don't have a place for them at the table of the church. We would rather that they left the church and engaged in promiscuous conduct that to give them the sanction of marriage. Oh yeah that would mean it wasn't a sin anymore. SOMEONE help me understand it. I know that Brigham Young led us astray for decades until Spencer W. Kimaball had the faith to take it to the Lord. It was said that we had to be prepared first before it happened. I don't believe that. It was a mistake from day one and it took way too long to be corrected. I see the same thing all over again. Someone take this to the lord before we lose more precious faithful loving souls.
Hi,
ReplyDeleteFirst off, alot of people would call me gay. I am also a mormon. It is easy to compare the race and gay civil rights issues. But I reject the idea that gay marriage should be condoned by society. If you look at what has been said and done by the church in the last 15 years in regards to homosexuality I think you'll see that they have taken this to the Lord. Starting with the family proclamation that was presented by the unified voice of the first presidency and the quorum of the twelve, and followed up with many conference talks and several political actions. I accept what has been said on the issue. Was there a statement of equal prominence presented in regards to the ban on the priesthood? I don't think so. It was referred to as a policy. As a gay mormon I accept what the Church has said on the issue. I don't believe that they will change their minds some day. I think it is God's will.
That being said. I wish that the church membership was more caring and sensitive to the plight of those of us who suffer from Same gender attraction. So many times they see us as vile sinners and pariahs, just because of a temptation or condition we have. I ache when I think of all the young men and women who go through the loathing and self hatred when they experience this. As a church we need to do more to help them.
I realize many people will disagree with what I have said. But its what I believe.
I ditto j4k. I too am LDS and experience same-gender attraction. I agree absolutely with everything he has said. I also know others would disagree with what I say.
ReplyDeleteI believe homosexuality cannot be compared to a race. I find my homosexuality diminishing and am now married to the love of my life. That doesn't happen with skin color (Michael Jackson tried it). This experience would not have happened without the love and support of my family, church leaders, atonement of Jesus Christ, and much personal study and prayer. There are very clear doctrinal reasons against the acceptance of homosexuality lifestyles in the church compared to the whole priesthood ban policy. If the church did change its doctrine concerning homosexuality and I had lived a homosexual lifestyle, I still believe I wouldn't be as happy as I am now.
Take care,
I respectfully disagree with both of you on this. I am a gay married Mormon. I believe what the author was trying to point out is that this country was founded on certain principals that we should honor and treasure. Life, Liberty, the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS, and equal protection under the law. Each individual should have equal protection of the law to pursue happiness and marriage.
ReplyDeleteCertainly the church has the right to restrict its membership as it sees fit, but then after these members are forced out of the church, to ask them to continue to live by the churches rules is silly. Marriage is a source of great happiness to many people, why shouldn't we let all men, equal under the law, find their own happiness?
Perhaps we could emphasize "love the sinner" a bit more than "hating the sin" and wish those who chose differently than we do, a long life full of love and happiness.
I disagree with the first two commenters too. I'm a gay Mormon guy who has been married and lost his wife for reasons unrelated to this issue. I was born and raised in the church, served a mission, graduated BYU, married in the temple, have served in church leadership and in the temple.
ReplyDeleteAnd I think the Church is completely wrong in how it has handled the gay marriage issue. It has every right to speak up politically, of course. But as an attorney I have studied every one of its arguments against gay marriage in depth, and ultimately they all come down to one reason: "God said so." While that may be fine in a religious context, it is unacceptable as justification for imposing a secular legal standard on millions of people who do not accept the religious basis for the rule. Doing so would be akin to the Catholics ramrodding through Congress a federal statute banning the sale & consumption of steak on Fridays because of their religious tradition of eating only fish that day. The basis for the rule means nothing to non-Catholics but the rule restricts their free will and choice for a purpose that means nothing to them.
It constantly surprises me that so many Church members don't seem to comprehend this distinction. There is no threat to religion here. We are not talking about a religious principle. The problem is that Prop 8 and its cousins across the country have used a religious basis to impose a civil law restriction on a targeted group of people and have denied them the equal protection of the laws in a secular context. This is the crux of the case now in Federal court in San Francisco, where former Bush Administration Solicitor General Ted Olson is lead counsel arguing that Prop 8 is unconstitutional for that very reason. He is a conservative's conservative but on this issue, even he sees that marital inequality such as that enshrined in Prop 8 is bad law and should be struck down.
@j4k: With all due respect, you need to read more Church history. More than one apostle or FP member said that the priesthood ban was basically permanent doctrine and would never change until the Lord's Second Coming. Early Church leaders mocked monogamy as the source of many social pathologies and preached polygamy as essential for exaltation. It is ironic that the Church now uses against gay marriage the very same arguments that were used against it in the 19th Century re polygamy.
ReplyDeleteThe Proclamation on the Family was written as a policy statement (with significant input from attorney Dallin Oaks) in the Church's early phase of fighting gay marriage. It was first read out in a Relief Society conference, not General Conference, and has never been voted on or accepted as doctrinal or binding by the membership of the Church. Statements about the priesthood ban and polygamy were indeed just as prominent if not more, for decades.
I respect your good faith but find most distasteful your descriptions of being gay as a "plight" to "suffer from." And please, call it what it is. We're gay, buddy. We don't "suffer" from "same gender attraction." Yes, there are difficulties but in my experience they are solely the result of external factors that try to impose those difficulties from the outside. Nothing about being gay is intrinsically sad or difficult. When I recently came out to a HS classmate, he said he was extremely proud of the courage it took to do that, and that some of the happiest people he knew were gay. He said they were almost "silly happy" all the time. Because they were true to the way God made them. He actually envied their happiness and said his own life seemed almost miserable by comparison.
I can't believe God our Father would want us to accept any life template that told us we were miserable or suffering from a "plight" that He gave us. "Gay" means happy and cheerful. That's how I choose to live.
@For This Cause: I respect your freedom to choose your life's path of course. I did as you did, and years ago I could have written what you have on your blog. Then after years of the same Herculean efforts I'm sure you are putting forth, my marriage ended for unrelated reasons. And I realized that despite all that time and effort to become what I was told I should be and to achieve what I was told I should want, my heart's deepest desires had never changed. Finally I decided to be honest with myself and I came out. My kids are completely supportive, and I am happier now than I ever was in the marriage. I wish you luck in your journey.
Well, i don't think I need to explain too much about how I feel on this one. ;) I agree with you. This has become an especially pressing issue for our time and I really believe it necessitates an especial amount of attention. I really wish that the church would see this and act accordingly. How much of our predicament is the consequence of culture? I believe it's more than most of us would be willing to believe. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings Keaton.
ReplyDeleteAmen to your post here, Keaton. :)
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